Curse

Zephyr Jackson · Feb 02, 2006, 03:17 PM // 15:17

I would like to know your Opinions on playing games for Money through tournaments and Ebaying virtual items for real cash.

I am doing a school newspaper article on this subject and i thought here for a variety of respnses would be approiate

please answe in this format:

1. If i can use your quote in my article (y/n)
2. How you feel on playing tournament games for real cash
3. How you feel on the ebay condition of selling virtual items

Mods: i did this here because i am looking for direct quotes and have their permission for using them in the article. It wouldve been easy enough to search but i thought that would basically be stealing their quote without their permission.

bulletsmile · Feb 02, 2006, 03:42 PM // 15:42

well, i think that winning money in tournaments is not bad, it makes gaming much more attactive, but to buy in-game (virtual) stuff for real money is stupid i think. For the first it is just a game and real money is not worth it in any possible way!
that's my opinion

RPG Matthew · Feb 02, 2006, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulletsmile

well, i think that winning money in tournaments is not bad, it makes gaming much more attactive, but to buy in-game (virtual) stuff for real money is stupid i think. For the first it is just a game and real money is not worth it in any possible way!that's my opinion

i agree

Swampgirl Inez · Feb 02, 2006, 04:30 PM // 16:30

1. Sure, go ahead

2. I don't have a problem with tournaments. People will have contests for almost anything and if you want to have an event for prizes, I think it is a good way to have fun.

3. I've never understood the concept of paying real money for virtual items. I just can't wrap my brain around why someone would do it. I paid my fee for the privelege of playing the game and I think that's as far as it should go. I got my entertainment. If I'm not great at playing it or don't have the best items, oh well, it's just a game. I've got plenty of REAL things to pay for.

BTW, Fortune magazine did an article on this recently. I'll try and get the link for you. Good luck on your article. I always liked the school paper.

EDIT: Hope this still works...

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...11/28/toc.html
scroll down to "Innovations"

=HT=Ingram · Feb 02, 2006, 05:05 PM // 17:05

There is a significant Difference between a Officially sponsored tournaments with prize money and violations of the Rules of Conduct & End Users License agreement by selling in game IP without the permission of ArenaNet.

It would be 100% different if Arenanet themselves offered a way to purchase gold in game Officially. but they have determined that to keep the game play fair and competitive that such services are not to be used... the resellers take the in game Intellectual Property (IP) and distribute it to other players for real money with no return to the actual owners of the product. ArenaNet / NCSoft.

Now I'm not a fan of IP laws in general. I think the law has a lot of room to evolve, and will have too someday soon or companies like the RIAA and the MPAA will make America a large penal colony in order to arrest every violator... There is such a thing as FAIR USE. In this case Fair use is that the owner of the IP in game allows a licensee to earn gold through farming in game and selling their in game wares for in game gold. That's a fair use example. IP exchange for IP exchange. But when that balance is violated and it becomes IP exchange for real world profit. Then you are in violation of your EULA and are subject to removal from the system at any time. Basically you nullify your service contract with arenanet for doing this action. And since the game is utterly unplayable without internet access, you now have a worthless product.

There have been MMOs that have sued and won against Gold resellers in the past. I'm too tired to cite any case in particular but I know of two for sure that it was upheld in court. MMO game economies are severely hurt when such companies start selling in game gold and unbalancing the game for a select few that choose to cheat in this way.

Often this action is quite costly for the reseller as well as the Client... A reseller is banned and blocked by IP# and serial number for life of the server. No exceptions... These accounts then suddenly show up on e-bay for sell only to have the buyer discovered they were ripped off cause the account was locked out of the system. The buyer often results in a warning letter being sent to them, and having their account reset. meaning EVERYTHING... back to ground zero. nothing unlocked, No fame, no faction, no gold, no inventory, no skills, Nothing... I have seen this happen to at least 3 people from my gaming clan. So in the end what do you get? Nothing? so why bother? these companies exist cause people use them. if no one uses the service, then they go away eventually and two things happen...

1: the economy starts correcting itself and things start becoming valuable again at NPC traders.

and 2: Nerfing is significantly reduced so farming is not effected as much anymore and its easier to go out play the game and farm a little and have plenty for yourself and others to do whatever you want in time...

This was the case in the early release.. Prior to all the nerfing of farming territories... Sure there are some nice spots still , but there were literally dozens of good places in the beginning... and all those had to get nerfed because of reseller abuses of such areas...

Take a good look at the EULA and really read it... you will find some good information on the legitimate uses and missuses of the agreement. and a clear description of what constitutes a violation of the agreement... That will help you when writing this report... then you know the terminology to refer too when looking up the same thing on other games...

Now for the other side of the story... Some will say that what you are paying for is not the product or account or item itself but the time the person put into finding it or farming it for you... in such a case a written contract is needed in order to be legal as in a since you are hiring someone to play a game for you. And to be legal you need to have taxes declared and a official payroll ect... so this is not that great an argument... its hard to set up such an arrangement when not in a legal contract. How can you hire someone legally to do an illegal thing??? its a real conundrum... This side of the argument is a little hard to prove, but has not been successfully argued in a court of law as of yet. The Company tries to put clauses into EULA to state that they may terminate the contract at any time at the will of the IP owner. This is done to protect from such situations that actually do exist at this time. Prime example for you is IGE.. Not linking to it just look it up... in that case they hire 100s of people to play dozens of games just to give their wares to a company account to be used for real world profits for the company for payroll reimbursement... That's their legal argument for existence... so your actually not paying for the gold you get but the payroll time involved in attaining that gold.

Anets reaction to this was to nerf farming locations and skills used by these organisations to attain gold. thus making the price go up for the resellers... and its not very cheap to get large amounts of gold in game... 500K is like what $90 something like that... When they first started that was more like $40 for all that gold... So the strategy is working. Eventually the price will be so high that people will not want to buy in game gold in this way and those businesses will move on. Essentially what arenanet is doing is both reducing the Customer demand base, and Decreasing the supply available. this making the market force a inflationary reaction. till eventually it can not support itself to stay in operation. Arenanet often poses as customers to do two things. 1 take the gold from their available inventory, and 2 have prove of violation so that they can lock out the reseller account with both IP# and Serial key. Then the reseller has to mess around finding a new provider and repurchase the game in order to continue to have the same number of accounts for the service.

ok thats the Whole Long story... And just remember you asked for it. lol So go ahead and use what you want or ignore me completly. lol Eitherway I finally wrote it all out. lol

ingy...

Galie ... since this is for a paper I think it would be wonderful to have you give an official response for him to quote on this subject. I can not think of a good one to direct him too ATM... chalk it up to I've been up all night playing then reading posts and its now 8:17am so sleep deprivation is setting in. lol But I know he would appreciate an official statement on the matter...

xxSilhouette · Feb 02, 2006, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zephyr Jackson

please answe in this format:

1. If i can use your quote in my article (y/n)
2. How you feel on playing tournament games for real cash
3. How you feel on the ebay condition of selling virtual items

1. sure if you would like
2. I think that it is completely fine, usually those who win the tournament games put a lot of time and effort into the game, so in my opinion there is nothing wrong it.
3. I agree with it and I don't. If someone has the money to spend on it and wants to it is there buisness. But at the same time it is just a game, and virtual money isnt cheap

Guillaume De Sonoma · Feb 03, 2006, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zephyr Jackson

please answe in this format:

1. If i can use your quote in my article (y/n)
2. How you feel on playing tournament games for real cash
3. How you feel on the ebay condition of selling virtual items

1. Fine
2. The amount of skill, dedication, and practice it takes to become a professional vidoe game player is huge. So much time is spent by these people to constantly improve that there is no reason for it to be bad. If you would compare it to chess it is very similar. You find new strategies, new counters, and strive to get better with every match, just like professional video game players.
3. I find this acceptable, though stupid. There is no need to spend real life money on virtual things you cannot take with you. I would rather save my money for something more important. I have a friend who bought 8 million guild in guild wars and he doesn't regret a thing, so who really knows?

EchoSex · Feb 03, 2006, 01:57 AM // 01:57

If you're making bets with your friends at a party or something? Yeah, sure, fine. No problem with that. My ex-roomie and I used to bet to see how long we could survive on Driver. That was just plain fun gambling.

But setting up a huge compitition for money? No. We already have that kind of bullcrap with professional sports. These idiots don't deserve the money they get for chasing a ball around - why should fat white men with mice?

PieXags · Feb 03, 2006, 02:20 AM // 02:20

1. Yes
2. I think it's just fine. You can make almost anything a profession. Hell, I think it's stupid how professional football players get payed such insane amounts of money for chasing after a ball, but they still get payed don't they? While it might not be important to some people (like football isn't important to me) I still see absolutely no reason why someone shouldn't be able to recieve money for doing something they enjoy and have worked so hard at.
3. Disregarding the fact that it's usually illegal and assuming that for the purpose of answering this question it IS legal: I don't honestly have a problem with it. People will pay money for most anything---sex, drugs, weapons, really awesome ceiling fans, and yes even virtual goods. If people have the money and want to use it on something that doesn't even exist in any physical form outside it's little pixels on the screen they by all means that's fine with me. It's like a goldsink for real life!

master_ranger_matt · Feb 03, 2006, 04:33 AM // 04:33

1. sure
2. if you want.
3. No. That gives players an unfair advantage that they don't earn. It takes the fun out of games and encourages gaming elitism. The rich gold buyers are braggarts.

Xan. · Feb 13, 2006, 10:23 AM // 10:23

1. yes
2. I think it is perfectly fair for a game to offer prizes for those who play the best, it increases intrest in the product which increases their sales so that they can afford the prizes. This doesn't mean they're using us or anything, it's just the way it has to work for them to maintain a profit. However i believe this is only ok if...
3. ...you are not allowed to buy anything for the game with real money. If there was cash prizes and you could buy upgrades it would no longer be equally fair for players to win. Also say player A spent the last onth saving up o buy the game they won't be able to afford the upgrades whereas player B is a millionair and quickly buys a lvl 20 maxed out characte with armour that you can't ge ingame with the best upgrads and runes in any colour he likes.... unfair. It would no longer be an mmorpg because you're not REALLY doing things based on the rp ore on how rich you are in rl.... which is what we try to escape from playing the game in the first place!